[00:00:00] Julie South: [00:00:00]

welcome to episode 36 of Paws Claws and Wet Noses, the veterinary sector podcast, celebrating all creatures great and small, and the fantabulous professionals who look after them all. 

I’m your show host Julie south.

Today. We’re going to look at exit interviews.

The why, what, when, where. In other words, why do people resign from your clinic?

[00:00:27] If you don’t know why people are leaving, the brain drain will just keep perpetuating, which will make it even harder to attract, let alone retain top talent at your place. You need to ask the questions to find out what’s going on or not going on in your clinic. That’s behind the people leaving. That’s what this episode is all about.

[00:00:49] Helping you ask the right questions. So you can do something about the brain drain. At your veterinary clinic, we’re also going to be looking at best practice

[00:01:00] standard operating procedure SOP for what to do on an after an employee’s last day at your clinic. And also because we’ve got some law changes coming up, covering sick leave and the median wage, which in turn is going to affect immigration.

[00:01:16] Keep listening. Or fast forward to the end to catch up on those.

[00:01:23] Bryan Gregor:

[00:01:23] An old vet told my father when he was a student in Glasgow. He said, if you want to be a success in veterinary practice, just keep the bowels open and just arrest God. Okay. Nutrition is not an opinion. It’s a science. They called me that weird herbal needle.

[00:01:39] That, and I just remember Nikki. Well, I’m still gonna do it cause I know it works and I’ve got the research to back

[00:01:45] it from reminiscences of the real James Harriet son to Pete nutrition, to acupuncture the vet podcast, discusses current animal health issues from around the world on veterinarian, Brian greeter from New Zealand, just search for the vet [00:02:00] podcast, wherever you get your podcasts from.


Julie South: [00:02:05] Paws claws and wet noses is sponsored by vet staff. If you’ve never heard of VetStaff, it’s New Zealand’s only full service recruitment agency. 100% dedicated to the veterinary sector VetStaff has been around since 2015 and works nationwide from Cape Reinga  to the bluff and everywhere in between as well as helping Kiwis.

[00:02:29] Also helps overseas, qualified veterinarians find work Aotearoa New Zealandvetstaff.co.nz

[00:02:40] why do your top performing vets, nurses, techs, and support staff leave a veterinary clinic?. If you listened to Dr. Francesca Brown back in episode 29, you’ll have heard her talk about how it costs a clinic between two times and four times a departing employee’s annual

[00:03:00] salary to replace them.

[00:03:01] As always you can find all links and references mentioned in this episode at pawsclawswetnoses.fm. Two times two, four times annual salary. That is a lot. The thing is you can’t stop the staff turnover bleed at your place. If you don’t know why they’re leaving in the first place. That’s why you absolutely must conduct exit interviews.

[00:03:28] Knowing why staff are leaving in the first place will help you with both future attraction and retention of top veterinary talent. Even a staff aren’t leaving in droves. It still pays to find out why those who have left. Hopefully, you’ve got an onboarding system in place at your clinic. That’s where all new hires follow a precise roadmap about how things work at your place or new hires are [00:04:00] inducted.

[00:04:00] They know what your clinic standard operating procedure is across a whole gamut of different things. For example, what do they do with a hit by car drop off at the door? What to do when a name-tag is lost, how to apply for annual leave, where to find ABC and XYZ, blah, blah. Everyone on their first day or first couple of days, it’s given driving instructions on how to navigate the various systems at your clinic.

[00:04:28] They’re shown how to log onto the computer. They’re given an email address. That’s theirs. They have a security cat and they’re shown how to arm and disarm the alarm basic stuff, but stuff that no one should have to ask how to about that’s onboarding. Offboarding or exiting should follow a standard process more about that at the end, including an exit interview.

[00:04:52] Conducting exit interviews with staff leaving your veterinary clinic can help you figure out what your clinic is already doing really [00:05:00] well. And what areas could do with attention. Well, I conducted exit interviews can give you insights on the veterinary sector as a whole. What employee’s expectations are of your clinics in terms of remuneration benefits and other key criteria.

[00:05:17] Also a well conducted exit interview can provide an opportunity to ensure each veterinary professional, leaving your clinic leaves on a high note, feeling appreciated for their contributions and respected for their feedback. You want both parties to feel good about each other with no bridges being built.

[00:05:38] You want to both be able to bump into each other at conferences and industry events, with smiles and handshakes, not where you are dancing around the edge of the room, hoping you don’t bump into each other. Here are four best practices for conducting exit interviews. The first one is to create an exit interview policy, [00:06:00] make it a standard operating practice.

[00:06:04] Firstly, and I know this sounds really basic, but firstly decide that exit interviews will be adopted from this point forward for every single departing employee. If you’ve never conducted an exit interview and, or you’ve no idea,  where  to start, start today by outsourcing. And while this is being done, you can start implementing a process to bring it back in house at  your clinic

[00:06:31] most recruitment agencies or HR consultancies should be able to conduct an exit interview on your behalf. Having a formal policy regarding exit interviewing as an important part of clinic culture. Why because it demonstrates, I wish to improve and an interest in employee’s opinions. If one of your clinics values is about respecting and valuing all employees, then including [00:07:00] such a policy in your off-boarding or your exit process shows departing employees that integrity and respect are ingrained in all aspects of your work.

[00:07:12] The second thing to do is to decide on the format of your exit interview. And there are many variables that you can consider when deciding how to conduct an exit interview. Do you want it pre post departure or a combination of both or some clinics to choose to conduct exit interviews before employees leave other clinics?

[00:07:35] Elect interview employees post. A pre-departure interview is easier to share, draw, because they’re already on your clock, especially if you want to conduct it face to face. However, post departure interviews can make for more honest feedback. You can also implement a combination of both before an employee leaves.

[00:07:57] And then a few months after they’ve left, [00:08:00] if you choose to conduct the interview before the employee leaves pick an appropriate time here at the it staff, we recommend holding the interview about halfway between your announcement of an intention to leave. And the actual departure date after the initial rush of emotion has died down.

[00:08:18] But before the employee has checked out, A post departure interview can be conducted several months after the exit. Do you want to do it in person over the phone or web based? Many exit interviews are conducted in person, but face to face interview as an always the best option. Sometimes a telephone interview may elicit to greater honesty, then face-to-face meetings.

[00:08:46] But of course there’s a cost associated with that, which people then opt not to do it. And I don’t agree with it is because of the additional cost of in-person interviews. They don’t believe as justified. [00:09:00] Just going back to the beginning of this podcast. When I said that Dr. Francesca quoted between two and four times the cost of an employee salary, you can’t accost that you can’t keep continuing with it, that drain happening on your clinic.

[00:09:18] So as an investment, rather than a cost, the exit interviews are investments rather than a. Online and web surveys and questionnaires are also a popular option. These ensure that everyone gets asked the same questions, then data can be aggregated and the use of time as efficient. However, these methods don’t allow for one-on-one rapport or the opportunity to ask a follow-up question based on someone’s answer.

[00:09:49] What about do it yourself versus a third party external interview. And house H R or practice manager, or likely know how to conduct an [00:10:00] exit interview that addresses some of the unique concerns specific to your clinic. However, an external and independent interviewer make it more honest responses from employees who are concerned about preserving positive relationships with former bosses and coworkers who might serve as Putin as professional references.

[00:10:21] Them like reference checking and interviewing since conducting exit interviews as a skill that requires framing questions correctly, eliciting value, valuable responses and refraining from making the employee uncomfortable. The expertise of an experienced external independent interviewer can be hard.

[00:10:43] Do you want to conduct one or multiple interviews? Our recommendation is to conduct several exit interviews at your clinic. Yes. It costs more to do this, but as I said, when you faked and the two times to four times cost to your clinic of the departing [00:11:00] employee’s salary, can you afford not to truly find out what’s going on?

[00:11:06] When you opt to conduct more than one exit interview with each staff member, you can use several different modalities. For example, your veterinary clinic might ask an exiting employee to fill out a survey, but then also hold a face-to-face meeting to draw out more open-ended responses. You could also choose to hold an in-person meeting while your employee is still with your clinic, followed up by a survey a month or so later.

[00:11:32] Conducting multiple exit interviews can reveal additional information and new insights. You have to make sure the departing employee feels comfortable as you consider when, where, and how to conduct an exit interview. Focus on putting the interview E at eight. If you’ve opted for face-to-face as opposed to over the phone and or online, web-based make sure that it’s one to one, not [00:12:00] many to one.

[00:12:01] And please, please, please ensure the location is private. If you want honest answers, you need to be able to provide a location conducive to. Since employees may fear saying negative things about your clinic or it’s people will lead to retaliation, uh, steer them that their answers will be kept confidential or used only as part of an aggregate, but only if this is your company policy.

[00:12:31] Next explaining the purpose of the exit interview can also be heard. By clarifying the departing employees responses will be used to improve your clinic as opposed to weighing the employee’s performance or contribution to it. And that you’re not on a witch hunt, you can help them relax. Of course, you need to ask useful questions when planning, how to conduct an exit interview, [00:13:00] choose your questions carefully so that you get responses that will truly help your clinic improve.

[00:13:06] You’ll want to ask specific questions about the exiting employees, work and managers, as well as broader questions about HR issues and the clinic culture as a whole. In addition at the departing employee is leaving to go to a competitor clinic. You have the perfect opportunity to find out a bit about the competition.

[00:13:28] Here are some questions that you can include. What, and I’ll put these on the pause clause with nosers dot F M episode page for this episode. What is their reason for leaving? Do you feel you had opportunities for growth or promotion within this school? How well do you believe your work was recognized and appreciated?

[00:13:52] Do you feel you were given adequate training and assistance? How steely were rosters after hours [00:14:00] on-call requirements distributed among you and other veterinarians or your peers ask about working conditions and culture, workplace policies, tools, and equipment. How do you feel you were treated by the lead fit or your manager?

[00:14:17] What did you enjoy most about working here? Have you been thinking about this for a while? What could we have done differently? What was the one thing that finally brought about your decision to leave? What do you think would make this clinic a better place to work? Obviously it goes without saying that you’re not going to ask questions that will encourage gossiping, Dobbin someone and, or revealing personal information about other employees doing that will not go down well.

[00:14:50] Okay. So those are the exit interviews. Now let’s look at some best practice standard operating procedures that go hand in [00:15:00] hand with exit interview. If an employee asks you for a certificate of service or a statement of service, you’re legally obligated to provide this. This should be on your clinic’s later head and include commencement date and final data.

[00:15:16] Their employment. If an employee has been promoted or had different positions at your clinic, these can be listed here too. You can also include the employee stated reason for resignation. If you want. If someone asks for a reference, you don’t have to provide this if it’s your clinic’s policy, not to provide references, but if you do, it has to be true and accurate.

[00:15:40] You can chip out, check out episode 13 for information on reference checks. If you have anyone on your team, who’s being hired on a starting out minimum wage, that’s an official title, starting out minimum wage. Then there are things that you need to do [00:16:00] specific to them. The starting out wage as different to the $20 per hour adult minimum wage, the starting out workers currently earn $16 per hour.

[00:16:12] And. Aged 16 to 17 and have worked for you for less than six months. Aged 18 to 19 and have been paid a specified social security benefit for six months or more. And two haven’t yet completed six months continuous employment with any employer since they started being paid a benefit after six months, continuous employment with a single employer, they must be paid.

[00:16:39] At least the adult minimum wage. Aged 16 to 19 and required by their employment agreement to undertake industry training for at least 40 credits a year to become qualified employees who were being paid. The starting out minimum wage rate should also get a statement [00:17:00] of service saying how long they’ve worked for yours.

[00:17:04] This is so that their new employer will be able to work at the start date that they need to be paid. At least the adult minimum wage on an employee’s last day, you’ll need to collect clinic property. Hopefully you’ve got a checklist of what’s been assigned to each employee whilst they’ve been in your employee.

[00:17:25] So you know what you’re going to be expecting. Different positions will require different clinic. And just to jog your memory of what you may have given out over the, at time, his A-list computer stuff. This includes yeah. Tops, tablets, mobile printers, mobile scanners, and anything debt. For example, a large event has taken it in the field.

[00:17:52] Mobile phone company files. Tools and equipment, do an inventory check of the vehicle to make sure that [00:18:00] everything is there, uniform any credit and charge cards that you may have issued. And if you use taxi chits or prepaid courier tickets, get those back as well. ID cards and clinic building, excess cards, vehicle, and all keys, including remote gate and door opening.

[00:18:25] Keys to all buildings and safes, additional perks. For example, gym membership. What else have you given that you need to give back or cancel? When it comes to it stuff, remember to ensure that everyone, every departing employees, email address as redirected to another generic email address at your clinic and, or is canceled.

[00:18:53] My recommendation is a redirect. That way you always catch up with what is going, what does happen? [00:19:00] What is still outstanding via email when people reply or remote access to your server and company files, access to third-party providers software as a service type providers and Stuart, their login is canceled.

[00:19:18] Any phone numbers that have been dedicated to them, set up automatic, call forwards and building excess, remove their security excess from all buildings. When it comes to final pay calculations, the clinical need to pay the employee. The final pay. Now this can be done on their last day or should be done as soon as possible.

[00:19:43] And no later than the next shift, Jord, payday, updating and storing personnel files. Once an employee has left the clinic, we’ll need to make sure that your employees, personnel records are up to date. [00:20:00] The file should be updated with the amount of final pay, including holiday pay and any other incidentals.

[00:20:08] This file can then be stored in a safe and secure archive clinics must keep wage and time records and holidays and leave records that comply with the legislation for at least six years. And in particular, be able to show that you have complied with all minimum employment entitlements, such as minimum wage and annual holiday.

[00:20:33] Clinics must also retain wage deduction records, such as P a Y E information for seven years, student loan, deductions, and superannuation contributions as required by law. So wage and time records and holiday and leave. You need to hold that information for six years and then wage deduction records such as pay student loans is [00:21:00] seven years.

[00:21:01] However, except for wage and time records, as I’ve just said, holiday in labor codes. Clinics may need to keep some other information after employees, cease employment, for example, a small amount of information may need to be kept about their performance F you think that you might need to give a reference, make sure though that only relevant information is kept.

[00:21:27] If there is any kind of employer, employee dispute live, or you think it might happen after they depart. And you remember that a personal grievance can be kicked off anytime. And the first 90 days after resignation or after departure, sorry, then you’ll need to keep all relevant information for as long as it takes to resolve the dispute.

[00:21:52] Apart from this required by law employee information, the basic rule of thumb about the rest of the stuff that you [00:22:00] keep, the rest of the information that you keep once an employee no longer is at your place is you should only keep what needs to be kept best practice as to securely destroy the information about six months after their employment has terminated.

[00:22:18] If you don’t have across cash. In your clinic, there are secure document destruction services that you can hire on an as required basis. These guys bring a secure and locked, really been into the workplace with a hole in the lid document, and it’s all padlocked and changed and chained documents that need to be destroyed, uh, dropped into the top of the burn.

[00:22:42] And then it’s picked up in an agreed time and destroyed, secure. Now I promised you an update on some upcoming law changes here they are. The first one relates to an increase in sick leave. Entitlements brought [00:23:00] about as a result of covert parliament has passed the holidays, increasing sick leave amendment bill to increase the minimum employees sick leave entitlement from five days to 10 days per year.

[00:23:14] Most employees who have worked at your clinic for six months or over are entitled to sick leave. If they or a dependent are sick. Currently employees are entitled to five days of sick leave per year. However, from Saturday the 24th of July, 2021, this will increase to 10 days. This means that employees will get the extra five days when they reach their next entitlement date, which is either after regions, six months employment or on their sick leave and titlements anniversary, which is usually 12 months after they were first entitled to six.

[00:23:55] If your clinic already offers 10 or more days of sick [00:24:00] leave per year, you don’t need to do anything. These employees or you and, or you aren’t affected by this change. The maximum amount of unused sick leave that an employee can be entitled to remains at 20 days. The second change that’s coming up, relates to the median wage and the immigration and visa ramifications.

[00:24:25] As a result of this F you’re applying for an essential skills work visa, the requirements and conditions of your visa will depend on the job you’ve been offered. And if you will be paid above or below the New Zealand median wage. Every year, immigration, New Zealand updates, the median wage, therefore effector from the 19th of July.

[00:24:49] That’s next week. As it recording this podcast, the hourly rate will increase to $27 per hour. That’s up from the current $25 [00:25:00] 50 per hour rate. So it’s going up to $27 per hour from the 19th of June. If you visit Katie Armstrong’s Facebook page, which is to end it. Katie is an immigration, a licensed immigration consultant that I’ve had on rent a webinar with last year.

[00:25:20] And she’s coming on again soon. Back to Facebook and to indeed at 5:23 PM on the 1st of July, Katie posted an update on changes to the median wage. And here’s a summary. So you can go and look there, but here’s a summary of what she said. This increased to $27 per hour as for essential skills and skilled migrant category residence visas.

[00:25:46] If you’re in the poll and have claimed $25 50 per hour, you’ll need to have an increase and amend the expression of interest as such all immigration requirements, indexed to medium wage are [00:26:00] expected to increase since. For example, Katie is expecting priority processing for residents to increase to just over $112,000.

[00:26:12] This jumped to $112,000 per annum is expected to affect the veterinarians coming into New Zealand outside of the June 50 batch. That was announced in June, which these vets have to have a minimum of three years experience and a minimum salary of $85,000. So it’s per annum. So it’s looking like all other vet salaries will need to increase to $112,000 per year.

[00:26:39] That’s up from the current 106,080. And changing the subject again, I attended the inset VA in Zeta VNA conference in Christchurch in late June. It was a great conference, which sadly was impacted by the Wellington region going to alert [00:27:00] level two lockdown. So this meant that all Wellingtonians went home about lunchtime on the first day.

[00:27:06] However, I’d like to make a huge shout out to Leanne and her team at the bid association for creating a conference that was able to continue with that. Any blips without her physically, her and her team from Wellington, physically being present. Leanne was one of those who had to return to Wellington and I’m sure for her, it might’ve felt like that the professors.

[00:27:32] Doc’s fake gang 19 to the dozen under the water while all was calm on the surface. But from what I saw, the conference continued without a blip. So huge kudos, Leanne. It was an amazing conference and well done. And also to Brendan the business stream topics and speakers were spot on. So what on Brendan for that?

[00:27:56] And still in conference mode stay tuned because I’m [00:28:00] looking forward to being able to share future guests with you, ranging from the business stream speakers through to Dr. Grant McCulloch president of the vet association. If you have any questions for any of these guests, please email them to me. Juliet Bitstamp dot Coda in Zed, so they can ask them on your behalf.

[00:28:20] And if you’re still here, thank you for spending the last half an hour or so of your life with me here. I really do appreciate, and truly appreciate you going out of your way to listen. If you haven’t already click, follow wherever you listen to your podcasts, so that they’re fed automatically into your podcasts channels, new release, you.

[00:28:46] In addition to the guests that I’ve just mentioned. Remember, we’ve got the latest on microchipping coming up from companion animals, New Zealand, and we’ve got how to reduce your student loan and grow your wealth with Janet Netta of [00:29:00] smart money advice. Thank you for listening. Khaki UNO. Take care. Paws claws and wet noses is sponsored by vet staff.

[00:29:11] If you’ve never heard of it, staff it’s new, Zealand’s only full service recruitment agency. 100% dedicated to the veterinary sector fit staff has been around since 2015 and works nationwide from Kate Wrangler to the bluff and everywhere in between as well as helping Kiwis fits. Also hubs overseas, qualified veterinarians find work and art hero and New Zealand fit.

[00:29:38] vetstaff.co.nz.


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