051 – Immigration Consultant – Katy Armstrong – vets and visas in 2021

[00:00:00] Julie South: Welcome to episode 50, one of paws, claws, and wet noses. The vet podcast, celebrating all creatures great and small. And the fantabulous professionals who look after them all. I’m your show? Host Julie south today’s guest is a licensed immigration consultant. Katy. If you’ve been following VetStaff for a while, you may remember that through the first bit lockdown last year, Katie and I did a webinar about all things, immigration back then.

[00:00:38] Well, lots has changed and here we are with visas finishing up backlogs and all sorts of immigration messes to unravel and sort out. Therefore, if you have. Signed my petition yet requesting MB to allocate just two MIQ spaces per week. To vets with visas coming into New Zealand, [00:01:00] you can do tinyurl.com/get2vetsnz.

[00:01:07] Thank you, Katie. And I talked today about why that’s a really good idea. I’ll put all links on where you can get hold of Katie, including her website on today’s episode, page at paws claws, wit noses dot. If M episodes. 51, an old vet told my father when he was a student in Glasgow. He said, if you want to be a success in veterinary practice, just keep the bowels open and just arrested.

[00:01:37] Bryan Gregor: God. Nutrition is not an opinion. It’s a science. They called me that weird herbal needle that, and I just remember thinking. Well, I’m still going to do it cause I know it works and I’ve got the research to back it from reminiscences of the real James Harriet son to P nutrition to acupuncture the vet podcast, discusses current animal health issues [00:02:00] from around the world on veterinarian, Brian greeter from New Zealand, just search for the vet podcast.

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[00:02:45] Katie. What happened to immigration, New Zealand businesses being registered that was going to kick in next month.

[00:02:54] Katy Armstrong: Okay. Well, that’s all been picked to touch once again, we will all get [00:03:00] up for that to come in.

[00:03:01] We had back in may immigration officials. Sort of road showing around New Zealand cheerleading for that new policy. But then there was a very sharp U-turn saying actually, we, we can’t really, the sub message was we can’t implement that in time, realistically. So it’s been kicked out till the middle of next year and we still don’t have the rules.

[00:03:23] So for the moment it’s still voluntary. Yeah. They, they, nobody can actually apply for any accreditation before the middle of next year. We’ll be waiting to see if they kick it out any further the change. So really just don’t hold your breath. Get on with business as usual ERs, the median wage expected to change.

[00:03:46] I would think it could well change because we’ve actually seen some quite inflationary presses on wages due to the school shortages. I’m sure everybody’s seen a certain amount of that. In fact, we’ve been hearing all the way [00:04:00] through the last, however many months. Businesses, uh, either busy poaching or having to really up the ante on wages.

[00:04:07] So that could well end up skewing the figures. So, yes, I wouldn’t be at all surprised if it does change. It does, you know, something that is always indexed by statistics, New Zealand and immigration, New Zealand follows what they do. So immigrate to New Zealand doesn’t set the medium wage itself. But if the median wage changes, it tends to.

[00:04:31] So right now in relation to visas, in working in New Zealand for overseas qualified bits to, to work here, the 106 and $80,000 is still the number. Is that correct? Yeah. So that’s pretty much what we have to work too, because when we’re talking about getting new vets into New Zealand for long-term roles, which most of them are, so a long-term role is one which is defined as.

[00:04:59] For [00:05:00] longer than six months, then that is a 1 0 6 0 8 oh salary requirement. If the vet were coming in for a shorter term stint, according to way, the immigration instructions are worded, there isn’t that same requirement, but immigration has consistently warned. Don’t just think you can get around it by saying, I need a vet for three.

[00:05:25] And then off the three months trying to renew saying a, this is a long-term role, but yeah. So for the most part, let’s just assume that it’s the one that 6 0 8. Oh. And remember, that’s actually not in line at the moment with the median wage increase that we sold last year, because if they had followed median wage on that particular requirement, we would be talking about a hundred and twelve three, two.

[00:05:52] So in actual fact, critical worker was the one area where they kind of stuck in the mud and they didn’t shift it up with probably because they realized [00:06:00] it was already very controversially. High immigration has indicated that it’s not planning to put that up for the critical workers that is it’s got its own little.

[00:06:09] And it’s currently the only space where 1 0 6 0 8 oh is, is mentioned everywhere else has gone up to 1 12 0. Yeah.

[00:06:17] Julie South: Can you define what critical worker means for immigration New Zealand?

[00:06:23] Katy Armstrong: Well, it means lots of things to different people, but we’re talking today about vets. So a vet usually has to demonstrate that they have unique specialist skills, not readily obtainable in New Zealand.

[00:06:35] That’s if they want to come in. Not as part of the closest. So this is probably going to confuse people, but, you know, we, we immigrated to New Zealand, set up a particular quota for a particular number of vets of a particular time. So it excluded those small animal vets. You remember? That was last September.

[00:06:54] Yeah. Yeah. So you’ve got, that was sort of in its own little standalone container and [00:07:00] those bets were sort of chosen by industry if you like, whereas separate to that quoter, that is an unlimited scope to bring in vets. If they can show that they have unique skills, not readily obtainable in New Zealand, the problem with that definition as we.

[00:07:17] Seeing from the start is that it’s very susceptible to subjective use about what it means. It has caused problems. What happened actually historically, but that was the last year about this time last year, but we’re being declined because immigration New Zealand was saying, well, they don’t have unique skills because we have vets in New Zealand.

[00:07:39] So therefore they’re not unique. And we were sort of in this ridiculous space where it was. Almost being interpreted that you had to be one of a kind, which is clearly not practicable, then due to pressure from the industry. Immigration kind of did a U-turn on that and said, well, actually we will reinterpret that.

[00:07:58] So, but who [00:08:00] are at the one? I sit photos do stand a decent chance of getting in, particularly in my experience if they are at the upper end of their profession. So we’re talking people. Mo, perhaps post degree qualifications. I mean, if they’ve got hosts degree qualifications on top of the normal degree, or they’re in some specialism, then they’re going to come into that unique skills arena.

[00:08:22] So, I mean, we’ve run quite a lot of those and they’ve been successful. There’s been some changes, sudden changes was permanent residency. What, what does that mean? In simple terms because it doesn’t sound like there’s anything particularly simple about what’s what’s going on, but how, what does it mean for vets who are in New Zealand right now wanting to get their permanent residency?

[00:08:56] So in New Zealand at the moment, there will be a [00:09:00] number of vets who are on what to residents needs is the traditional pathway for. Was to go onto a work to residence visa for the most part, because Y uh, registered bets are on our long-term skill shortage list. And so anybody who could meet the long-term skill shortage list was able to get what we call the, a work to residents long-term skill, shortage list visa.

[00:09:26] And that’s the visa that traditionally has this pathway, where after working on the visa for two years, Qualify on application for residents. It doesn’t come automatically, but you, you have to reply, but as long as you’ve worked in your job on that work to residency as a, for two years, you can qualify. So we’ve got people, obviously in New Zealand who are at some stage of the journey on that visa.

[00:09:53] And some of them may well have already applied for residents from work and. [00:10:00] Most of those would have been this, you know, if they’ve applied to, they should have been decided with priority because anybody in a registered patient has been treated as having priority processing rights. And so typically right up until we went into lockdown in August, those applications were going through pretty quickly, like six or eight weeks.

[00:10:24] That was it. So that was all good. The ones who have been applying since the 17th of August will find themselves smelled up in another delay, even though they are priority processing, literally during lockdown in Oakland level four and level three, there’s been virtually no movement on residents from work applications.

[00:10:51] At all. And that’s because they are paper applications and to our absolute shock horror, they did not scan those [00:11:00] applications in and said that they would not be able to process them whilst taste’s offices were at home. So it has become really distressing again to what a system just considerable my C’s up due to a lockdown when.

[00:11:20] Nobody can really get their heads around. Why, why would you not scan in these applications? And we’ve been told all sorts of things like, oh, well the residents applications they’re complex. Well, no, uh, that’s not true. And there are other residents applications, which they will process by scams. I don’t know.

[00:11:38] They’ve just dug their heels. And it’s now become a lottery because they’ve got some very skeletal staff back in the Auckland office. All those applications are done in Oakland. And it’s literally sort of just a handful. I mean, on Friday I asked for an application that was sent in on the 9th of September, please be fished [00:12:00] out of the pile because the person’s father has terminal a terminal illness and they need to be able to travel.

[00:12:07] And immigration said, oh, actually, we’ve. We’ve gone. We’ve got somebody in the office to now try and pull out all the applications lodged under that particular category. So that was on Friday. So we, it was quite clear that there were application skills sitting from very early into the lockdown that hadn’t even been opened.

[00:12:25] They’re just courier packages. So there’ll be vets probably in there going, why have I’m a priority residents application, but my application hasn’t actually sort of progressed and it’s probably just sitting in a post. So that’s that’s for the people who are there on that two year pathway and have already applied.

[00:12:44] But now I have to talk to you about the new 20, 21 residence visa. So do you know about that one too late? I think that will be of interest on the 30th of October, the immigration minister dropped the most almighty piece [00:13:00] of news whereby he created a brand new what he’s called the 20 21 1. Residents now this will impact on vets.

[00:13:10] There’ll be a lot of vets that will potentially be able to apply under this. So I’ll just give it a little bit of a tension. If I may, this is the visa that ostensibly will wipe out the cues. I think that’s how it’s been touted. That will wipe out the cues. The minister said it’s to give the businesses certainty and to harness skills and.

[00:13:31] Effectively 110,000 people are estimated to be eligible for this new visa and with their family members. That will be a total of 165,000. That is an awfully lot more than would otherwise have had pathways to residents. Some people in the mix will really have minimum wage jobs and have. Necessarily been in New Zealand that long, and then other people will be highly paid, highly [00:14:00] skilled is it’s all sorts of things.

[00:14:02] Unfortunately, it’s very badly thought out policy. It leaves out lots of people. There’s a lot of detail missing, but for vet, it does at least now give some respite perhaps to some who are. Quite far from reaching that two year mark, let’s say you were a vet who’s on, we’ve got to work to residence visa.

[00:14:25] You’re only at the sort of beginning of that work to residents. You were going to have to wait two years to apply for your residents. Now you will have this new visa and you will be able to apply on the 1st of March that brings forward getting residents temporarily. For some of your vets and they’re saying it will be a lot more streamlined.

[00:14:46] It will be an online process. It will actually be more expensive than the current resident, from what we think, because residents from WAC has $1,800, this new visa, although we don’t have the fee yet, [00:15:00] we’ve been told to expect around 2,600.

[00:15:04] Julie South: What’s the criteria for meeting there. I’m thinking as you, as you were talking, I know of two vets who companion animal vets who are on a working here.

[00:15:19] With the visa under that visa on that visa, as far as I’m aware right now, they, uh, they’re British. They are back in the UK because there was an exam that they were meant to sit last year. They couldn’t, it’s a post grid exam, and they absolutely had to go back to the UK. To sit it there, trying the, uh, you know, they’re spinning the wheel with the MIQ lottery, trying to get back.

[00:15:50] Does the fact that they have been out of New Zealand? Strike against them.

[00:15:54] Katy Armstrong: Well, so this is going to be very interesting actually, because the immediate ruling was that you had to be in [00:16:00] New Zealand on the 29th of September of this year to qualify for this visa. And you had to be on a particular visa type working holiday visas for example, were completely and utterly excluded.

[00:16:11] That’s our starting point is where are you in New Zealand? On the 29th of September. And did you hold the. Type of visa. So if you were a vet on a work to residence visa, for example, you would have been fine. But not if you were on say what a working holiday now, if you are caught outside of New Zealand at the moment, but you can get yourself a critical worker border exception to come back here.

[00:16:38] On a long-term role and you can get in before the end of July of next year, you still have an opportunity to apply under this visa because the one except, well, there are two exceptions only to the rule that you have to have been in New Zealand on the 29th of September. And that is if you were either [00:17:00] caught out in Australia, They can come back in as long-term critical workers, both of these that I’m thinking of have permanent positions in New Zealand already.

[00:17:12] They were here working in a permanent position and they needed to go back to the UK for an exam. Now they tried to get back. So it may be, and I’m going to stress the Mae because for the 20, 21 visa, we still do not have any instructions. We have only a statement of intent, and we are told that we will get the instructions before the end of October.

[00:17:37] So there’s a lot of detail that we don’t know. And on Friday, precisely I was in a webinar with immigration New Zealand, where there was a lot of expectation because it was an industry website. Hoping that we would all get a lot more sort of insight because we’d all been asking the detail questions, but instead of taking the detail questions, we didn’t get the answers.

[00:17:59] We were basically [00:18:00] given us sort of advertisement, a 50 minute advert for this new visa. And there was a lot of, sort of this sets us back sooner after that, as a result, consequently, I can’t advise today for sure. But your vet would be able to get in, because I guess it remains to be seen whether immigration will allow those that were already here.

[00:18:21] In New Zealand who come back on variations maybe of their existing visas or, or whether new visas, whether they will be counted in as these new critical workers, hopefully they will. But I can see a little bit of devil in details, stuff around that. And the reason why I’m cautious is because I’ll give you the example.

[00:18:42] I mean, it’s, you would think common sense would prevail. But they made a border exception category for 300 teachers only, just recently. And I’ve just had a teacher whose school he left because he was separated from his family. So he couldn’t take that anymore. [00:19:00] So he went back and he’s just applied to come back through the 300 exemption category.

[00:19:06] And he’s been turned down because they said you were already. And he’s being sort of penalized. You could say for having left now it’s different. It’s a different context and it’s a dislike, the different sets of policies. And I’m not saying there’ll be some necessarily gnarly, tricky point on this, but we do need to watch out because that was a fine, fine point.

[00:19:26] That was never in the announcement around the teachers at the time, it just sort of came out and wash. So I’m heading, heading bets here. I’m going to say, well, those two verts. Let’s see what actually comes out in writing in the next couple. And this is immigration, New Zealand, and anything could change.

[00:19:44] You’re so spot on because I was just in a meeting earlier today, actually one of many around what’s going on and everybody, and these are all advocates in the migrant space were expressing the same thing, but we’ve only really seen you terms. And [00:20:00] last minute policy, we haven’t really seen any, anything that’s involves consultation or the finer points being really sort of thrashed out.

[00:20:08] We just get reactionary policy, then we’ll be gaps and notice. And then everybody scrambled around to plug them long-term skills. Visa. Is that still a thing it’s actually going to die a desk at the end of this month. So. What have we got just under two weeks left of the long-term skill, shortage list, work to resident’s visa, or first time brand new worked residence visas.

[00:20:35] We’ve only got to the end of this month to apply after that. We’ll be applying for something else. And that’s something else between the end of this month and probably the end of July of next year. We’ll be looking at essential skills. Work these as four people. So if there’s a vet out there, for example, who wants to get on to a work to residence visa [00:21:00] now before the end of the month, then they can still do that.

[00:21:04] But after the end of the month, they can’t do that unless they’ve already applied for residence from. So that would be your people who may be, have applied for residence from work just recently got smelled up in the sort of lockdown. We’re not doing anything queue and finding themselves towards the very tail end.

[00:21:28] Of a 30 month visa, let’s say you had a 13 month visa. You applied for your residence from work bang on 24 months, but now you’ve maybe only got three or two months left on your visa. Cause time is dwindling. You will, because you’ve applied for residence. You would get a right of renewal even after the end of this month.

[00:21:50] So if you’re renewing. You have to supply for residents already, and then you get a right of renewal even after the end of this month, if you haven’t put in a residence [00:22:00] application and you just want to get a new work to residents, long-term skill shortage. This means that you’ve just got until the end of this month.

[00:22:07] And then that’s it gates closed, finished, gone. Doesn’t mean that come get an another kind of visa. It just means they can’t get that kind of visa. Are there advantages to having. Well, personally, I don’t want to bulky down with too much detail. In most cases, I would say probably not. Now that we’ve got the 20, 21 visa, if you qualify for the 2021 visa, the vast majority are probably going to be able to just wave goodbye to.

[00:22:38] Oh, what residents mindsets that old roots and not, and feel okay about that. Feel liberated. Don’t need the work to residents’ route anymore. But for some, like, let’s say you were on a working holiday visa. I know that a lot of vets do use the working holiday visa. And of course the minister has extended working holiday visa so much that a lot of people didn’t feel [00:23:00] the need to get off them.

[00:23:02] And that I find particularly cruel because those are the people that are most effected by this ruling. That if you are in New Zealand, on the 29th of September holding a working holiday visa, even though you are a vet that we need desperately, you don’t make the cut for the 20, 21 new resident’s visa.

[00:23:22] So any vet who’s on a working holiday visa. I would be urging to quickly apply. Now before the end of this month, even if the minister has extended your working holiday, don’t hang about on that working holiday visa, get off it and get onto the long-term skill shortage list, because it’s going to give you a pathway to residents, even though you’ll have to work on that visa for two years, that might be something that’s still useful to you, but for a lot of other people, the people that were qualifying for this 2021 visa.

[00:23:55] An awful lot of them won’t need to worry about that work to residents anymore. They could [00:24:00] just, for example, trove along on their work residents that they’ve already got apply for this new residence visa. If they need to renew their visas, they can do that through the essential skills routes, skilled migrant visa.

[00:24:14] What’s that. And does it apply to vets the scale of migrant residents visa? Currently not able to be applied for it’s dead in the water and it won’t revive until next the middle of next year. That’s the one that has the expression of interest and it relies on having enough points. It does apply to bets because bets have in the past, always had the choice to apply for skilled migrant residents.

[00:24:49] If they met it. Without having to wait for two years to apply for it. So you could have, you know, in the past you could come in as a vet, get to work to resident’s [00:25:00] visa simultaneously, or have applied for skilled migrant residents, some point system. It was, it was a Ferrari, you know, versus the residents from work, which was maybe more of a Gulf in the sense that you did.

[00:25:12] Yeah. You didn’t have to wait for two years. So when, back in the day, but glorious days, When skilled migrant was doing what it was supposed to do, and actually getting really skilled people from naught to residents really quickly. Like we used to, I can remember a time, not that long ago, a few years, but when I could get someone in say from the UK or South Africa or wherever, without even having to get temporary visas, we could get them in.

[00:25:41] We could get residents visas before they left home. That’s how beautiful it was. And then we got into this. Complete mess with queues. And you could say that that, that really effectively killed off the skill of migrant residents category. And that’s why as ministers created this new category, [00:26:00] because they just kind of, they got so into a pickle with it, all that.

[00:26:04] I describe it as a teenager’s bedroom that caught, you know, we’re a hoarder’s home where eventually you just have to throw everything out and start again. To clean it all up, but it’s just one big mess. And so that’s the idea. This new residence visa will mop everything up and then they can start the school migrants again.

[00:26:23] So next middle of next year, we’re told we will get a new skilled migrant policy. I would totally expect that butts could meet it. And that will be good, maybe for some, but. Hopefully the majority of vets in New Zealand here at the moment, we’ll be able to go through this new 20, 21 visa and not worry about that skill migrant category ever again.

[00:26:48] Do you have any idea what processing times are like? Because I’m hearing that they’re pretty horrendous at the moment. It really is dependent on the [00:27:00] visa that you go for. So what residence visas? But if, if someone puts a visa in now, before the end of this month, I would allow at least six weeks and maybe double that depending if start going for essential skills, visas, actually those are going very quickly because we’ve got this thing called essential skills light, and that is being fast-tracked.

[00:27:26] So some of those are taking only. Days or a few short weeks. It’s very, very volatile. I mean, it’s dependent on what flows at any given time, this new 20, 21 residents fees that everybody’s been asking us how long. And of course we don’t know, cause we don’t have it yet, but we know that the minister has said that it shouldn’t take more than a year, which is definitely an improvement on some but not where.

[00:27:55] I would question that is full vets. What we don’t know is [00:28:00] what did, they will still continue to prioritize, but because under the existing resident system that we’ve had a vet gets priority because they’re a registered professional with the new 2021. We haven’t been given any definitive as to vote. The vets will still get priority or whether everybody will now be sort of treated the same, just to give you some perspective on numbers.

[00:28:25] So 110,000 applications residents applications is a very large number. The way they’ve cut it is that some will be able to apply this 1st of December. And then, but we think only about 20,000 maximum, which leaves another 18. Or maybe 90,000 applying in March on the 1st of March. And they’re just all these details, but in terms of processing times, as you can imagine, we’re all sitting here wondering how on earth they’re going to process things as quickly as [00:29:00] they sort of cheerlead, because even though it’s a paired back process, there’s only so much pairing back that you can do, right?

[00:29:09] I mean, if you have a partner in an application. They’ve always got to check out the partnership. If you have children and the children, maybe stepchildren, there might be a custody issue off shore. That’s got to be resolved. There might be adoption paperwork. It could be all sorts of things that will slow application spam.

[00:29:29] So as an industry, we want to see these residents go through and I’m sure we will see some shoot through. I think if you’ve got a single person in a registered occupation, Who’s been in New Zealand already that you, we could see some of them shoot through in a month or two, but I think we will see others that will get those jammed in the system, just like everything else.

[00:29:53] And also just imagine an online platform, Julie, from a. That can then take 90,000 applications potentially in the [00:30:00] same day. We’re not sure how or what, what, what the reality of all of that is going to be on Friday. Immigration seems to be thinking that people would sort of go, oh, well, I can apply any time up until the end of July next year.

[00:30:13] And they would take their time. Whereas those of us that know the community know that there’s anxiety and people want to get their application in the minute something opens in case the chip rules changed. Or just in case the number 80,000. And do you know where the immigration New Zealand is giving priority?

[00:30:32] I’m thinking right now of vets that I know who are part of the, the June 50 criteria, they’ve one of them I know has been successful with the MIQ lottery, and now she’s received. The notification from immigration New Zealand, too, to do the paperwork for her, you know, the company, the clinic has done its part.

[00:30:59] [00:31:00] And now it’s up to her. Are they treating those with, with speed? Because it would be a real, it would be a crying shame. For the vet to have run the gauntlet of MIQ only to miss out and get the room only to miss out because now immigration New Zealand couldn’t process the visa in time. Well, now that’s an interesting scenario because what we’ve really noticed in the border work is that it’s slowed.

[00:31:34] So back in, back in the beginning, sort of, you know, immigration was saying, well, if. Making the border request. We will turn those around in five working days. And then for those that don’t know the process, maybe I’ll just sort of quickly mention it. So a brand new vet coming in, or someone trying to get back in the country as a vet, they have to go first through a border request and that one [00:32:00] would normally expect that to go through reasonably quickly.

[00:32:03] But then. Once you’ve got, once you’ve been approved as a critical worker, which now has that’s actually spun out well beyond, I mean, there’s no five days there. They generally take longer. You then still have to apply for the visa. So you’re invited to apply for what’s called a critical. Visa. And again, it just slightly depends on how many there are.

[00:32:27] If it’s just you, it will probably go a bit quicker than if it’s new partner children, because there’s more to assess, but let’s, it’s not uncommon to see these critical purpose processes taking three months to get from nothing at all to actually having visas in the hand with all those steps in the way.

[00:32:49] The clue is in the word that all critical, you know, supposedly they’re all critical, but yeah, it’s not necessarily fast, but it can, it just depends. So what we tend to do is if we’ve [00:33:00] got someone who’s managed to snaffle MIQ, but then I’m waiting on the visa, we actually take the MIQ voucher and we show it to immigration new Zealand’s case officer.

[00:33:13] And ask them to please expedite the process because otherwise it’s going to be a waste of an MIQ slot and wasting MIQ slots is a travesty, as we know. So it’s almost bizarre in a way that we have a system that totally disconnects the visa process from MIT. So you can get a visa, but then not be able to get MIQ, or you can get MIQ, but not have a visa.

[00:33:40] It’s almost bizarre. So we see ourselves as that sort of glue between where we try to join the dots. We try to get immigration to be aware of the MIQ dates because there’s nothing in the system automatically that tells you. That’s what my petition is about to [00:34:00] help. Yeah. Well, it’s, it’s interesting to JD because for MIQ, we do have that are emergency MIQ allocations.

[00:34:10] I’m sure you’re aware of and what, the way that’s, that’s subject to some very specific criteria. And one of them is about it’s geared towards health. Um, I haven’t got the wording in front of me, but it’s about, you know, if you’re coming in to basically save lives, then you can get emergency MIQ allocations.

[00:34:33] And it’s actually, it doesn’t specifically talk about. So I’ve always wondered if it could be used to get averts anywhere. But I think we interpretation by MIQ is, is around human lives. And that’s how we’ve been getting the likes of GPS and other health professionals in through the border. So they get.

[00:34:55] They don’t have to do the lottery. They go through emergency, and that’s what you need [00:35:00] for bets. You either need to be recognized as coming within that existing exemption or whole new exemption category being created around animal lives. Not human lines. petition at the beginning of the year was asking for a specific classification for visits.

[00:35:22] Then it was. Discussed in a big debate and parliament and may, and everybody said they were going to talk about it and report back nothing big, big, big black hole. I would say that the whole border approach has been so full of big black holes and anomalies, you know, and, and we know how. And entertain us, for example, for quite a long period of time where seemingly given priority that does seem to have become the cause of all [00:36:00] the fuss that we all made about it.

[00:36:02] But now, now I gather that a lot of them are having to run the same gauntlet of lottery, but why it took so many people banging on that door. For so very long, I don’t understand. There are exempt. She touched base the construction workers. I would have thought that that’s is a very compelling case. So I’m also hoping to see very soon that we can get a completely rethought out border policy because, and like he was actually unsustainable.

[00:36:33] And once you get to position where we are now, this sort of tipping point where there’s more cases in the community than there are. Through the border. It doesn’t make sense anymore to have the same border restrictions that we’ve had. And I think the government is recognizing that, but they seem just, everything is so slow and you need in this kind of situation, you have to be thinking well [00:37:00] ahead, because anything you set in motion now, particularly with immigration or unlike here only really has an impact in several months ahead.

[00:37:08] You know, we still haven’t got the. Dairy farm workers in that exemption categories were created for some months ago. They’ve not, not one single one of them had got in. Um, that was for the, she is calving and lambing and falling. Yeah. That, that associated it’s an, I know if the farmers who, um, are absolutely besides.

[00:37:33] Um, and then, um, you know, we’re both not letting them in, but we’re also draining out some of the workers that we have because they’ve been split from family and, you know, they haven’t been able to get home sometimes two or three years. So it is time. I think that we start to see some change. I’m hoping your petition will gain some traction.

[00:37:52] I actually think everybody. Over anything to do was [00:38:00] MIQ and COVID and orders. I listened to a prime minister a couple of weeks ago when she was talking about a Nance. Well, she was talking about the, the 150 people that they were going to pilot for a home in my home, isolation, quarantine at home. And she said that.

[00:38:24] She was considering it because employers would have skin in the game employ in my humble opinion, employers who are bringing workers to New Zealand have always had skin in the game and the workers who are coming here, I don’t believe that the majority of them are not going to jeopardize a new job and escape from MIT.

[00:38:51] To go down to the office license to buy some wine or whatever it is, you know, they’re not going to do that. They’re they’re [00:39:00] responsible people. I couldn’t agree more. And that’s, I mean, I feel like I’m a star record, present them saying that for so long now. And I mean, people on work visas can be deported for not complying with.

[00:39:13] Health orders, unlike unlike a new Zealander. And yet we are in New Zealand is to come and it’s it’s, we’re just so behind on that, it’s we’re past the point where we should be piloting anything. The pilots should have been months ago. And in fact, a journalist made a really interesting comment to me about the pilot, 150, cause he said, surely a pilot.

[00:39:39] Involve a range of people at different risk parts of the spectrum. If you’re only going to pilot the safest people with the biggest means and the biggest pockets and the homes with the cabin or whatever, with the ventilation, you’re not actually telling yourself anything. What you’re actually doing is you’re just doing a kind of drawing.

[00:39:58] Um, what’s called a [00:40:00] dress rehearsal of something that isn’t going to then know how to cater for the real life scenarios. But anyway, I mean, I think now, because I’m also involved with grounded Kiwis who represents all the New Zealand is shut out. I get to see the cost spectrum of arguments and pressures.

[00:40:21] And it’s been very informative for my work. And I think we will see some changes, but we want to make sure they cover, yeah. Say I don’t want to see a situation where a New Zealand, a New Zealand or that’s coming home. Can self isolate, but a vet double vaccinated from a low risk country. Can’t that would be another irrational anomaly in my mind.

[00:40:42] Do you know how many, you mentioned this now that no farmers have come into the country under the 50, under the 200 that was in June. And that was the same time as the 50 vets was [00:41:00] announced. I’ve heard debt Tovi. Have come into the country from the 50. Do you have any information? I can’t give you specific statistics on how many vets have come in.

[00:41:14] Um, I know that in my own work we have got border exemptions and critical purpose for a number of vets that are still trying to come in and that’s because they also have been running the lottery system and they just haven’t succeeded. I am running a very interesting. Border except maritime exception for a vet who is wanting to sail here.

[00:41:38] Um, yeah, because she’s lucky enough to be to her and her partner have a yacht and a very seasoned. Silos. And so again, you know, in an effort to be across all possible ways to come in, uh, we thought we’d give that one a go and we’re still waiting. And we’ve been warned that due to lock down these maritime [00:42:00] exceptions of taking a very long time, but that’s one to watch isn’t it, because, because they will have done their, their isolation is.

[00:42:09] Yeah. And it’s been very interesting, just sort of being involved with what we had to do to even apply for that exception. And the fact that, I mean, just silly things like the forms, just not being in line with the actual legislation on it. Um, so the forms were asking. For example, to make out a humanitarian case or to justify that the boat needed work in New Zealand, but actually neither of those criteria acquired as you are able to apply for maritime exception.

[00:42:37] If you have a visa granted a critical purpose visa, granted, you didn’t, you didn’t really have to show the rest, but it was as if you know, again, there’s just the sort of right arm left, um, parts of the process. Of course, I’m empathetic to how much the systems have been under strain, but. That would have just been so many anomalies all along the way.

[00:42:57] And so much about border response has [00:43:00] actually lacked common sense. I think I know that people would say, well, it’s kept New Zealand is safe, but there’s been the human cost. And in, in particular for the better. Freshen the stress on the employers that this short, the skill shortage has caused. It’s just beyond really hard.

[00:43:23] Yeah. And the stress in clinic, on the entire team, it’s, you know, nurses have been affected, we’ve got practice managers trying to juggle or create rosters when they haven’t got people. We’ve got clinics. Closing, hopefully only temporarily. We’ve got people going off on stress leave, which increases then the stress of those who, who aren’t going off, who are still there.

[00:43:55] That’s pretty crazy. And it’s pretty sad. I think what’s really been [00:44:00] lacking in the whole sort of response has been the coming together to find the, the common sense proportional. We’ve instead, we’ve had the splits, a very blanket black and white response that. And that it lacks that sort of ability to nuance and move with the time sufficiently.

[00:44:19] But let’s see what the next two months bring. I feel I missed out something that may be important for your, you did ask me about the vets coming in and how long the beads would take, but I just wanted to make one last point about vets coming into New Zealand, certainly for the first time, just to reassure that if they come in now on these critical purpose, long-term.

[00:44:43] As long as they can get in. I know that there’s this MIQ problem immediately, but let’s, let’s just suppose that that eases as long as they can get in, by the end of July of next year, they will be able to join in on this 20, 21 visa. I just [00:45:00] want to make that point because it might get lost in the midst.

[00:45:03] And that’s an important point because a month ago we didn’t, we couldn’t say that to vets coming. W w we were having to say, we can get you in, but then we’ve sorry. We don’t know how we can get into residents. Now we do know that we can get them to residents, but. Really important to come to New Zealand with the paperwork, but you will need for that residence because if you don’t apply by the end of July next year, that’s it.

[00:45:32] But that one off these are really well. I think the New Zealand vet association and MPI, if I understand how both of those two are working collaboratively, I’m making sure that before a vet process, it like sends their application anywhere else. That all the paperwork is in line and ready to go. And that’s one of the things that [00:46:00] here at VIT staff we’ve been doing as well as making sure that every single, but as ticked off and used, you’ve got this and they’ve got this and they’ve got this so that when immigration New Zealand asks for just X rates tick, here they are.

[00:46:13] Oh, that sounds very positive. What I’m suspecting might not be. NPI will bet associations horizons would be things. And these may not apply to the majority. I don’t know. It depends whether you’ve got family, but what, what a lot of people find when they’re coming into New Zealand is that they will, first of all, for a work visa, you don’t need a birth certificate.

[00:46:34] For example, now, in some cases, that seems very minor because you, you know, if you’re from the UK, you can get a book birth certificate in a couple of weeks. But if you’re from South Africa, it can take a long time to get a birth certificate. So. You know, we’ve got people in the country who got their initial visas and have been here for two years.

[00:46:55] And then at the last minute thing, oh gosh, now I need that document. I wish I’d got that [00:47:00] emotion earlier. And again, it’s remarkable how common it is for, for that to be blended families. So, you know, if you have a child under 16 where both biological parents are not migrating out to New Zealand to get.

[00:47:17] You have to have certain what we call custody paperwork. I mean, immigration still uses the word custody, even though our family law no longer uses that language, but let’s call it custody. And a lot of people again, will come to New Zealand with maybe a fairly loose agreement from the other parent to let that child come in.

[00:47:37] And then they get really shocked because when they apply for residents, that same document. Accepted by immigration, New Zealand. And that’s because it’s one thing to allow a child to move to New Zealand on a temporary visa and quite another to have them move here permanently. If you think about it, it’s logical and that’s a real hornet’s nest and it’s things like [00:48:00] that that I’m alluding to.

[00:48:00] So we tend to help people. With those sort of longer term stress do. So. Yeah, if I’ve got a critical work coming in now I’ve got an eye to what we need now, what we need to do when they land and what we need to do to get them residents. Because most bets, if they’re coming in now as a critical worker, let’s take a happy story.

[00:48:21] We get, we get a vet, they actually make it through MIQ and they’ve got that critical worker visa that stops. But as soon as they land into MIQ, literally the day or two after they land, we like to be lodging the next temporary visas so that the partner can work with children, go to school, and then we have to do the residents.

[00:48:41] So in most cases it’s three sets of visas. So, whereas I think I might be wrong, but the vets association and MPI would be much more focused on how do we get them in what’s that first visa? Okay. That’s a good point. So listeners, I will make sure that there are links [00:49:00] on this episode, back to Katie’s website as well, so that you can make contact with her.

[00:49:08] Katie, is there anything else that you think is important for the folks listening either here or in New Zealand, sorry, either in New Zealand or who wants to come to New Zealand or clinics who are. Whiting or wanting vets to come here that I haven’t asked? No, I think we’ve covered it off. And I think the fact that we do at least now have this 20, 21 residency’s there was making a, is putting us back in the game and a sense of, you know, it was very difficult to really give people a clear pathway as to when they’d be able to get their resume.

[00:49:43] That was my main sticking point before. So any vet out there or clinic out there that I think is worth really. Remembering that we do now, you know, hopefully any bet coming in now by the latest, the middle of [00:50:00] 20, 23 ought to be a resident of New Zealand. Which is a good thing. That’s, that’s the mistake.

[00:50:06] That was the absolute missing piece of the puzzle. Even four weeks ago, we were, we were just going, you can come in, but we then don’t know what’s going to happen to you, which was very disconcerting. I can assure you as both an advisor and an employer, I’ve got a crystal ball Christian, back in the day when we had working holiday visa, I have I receive weekly.

[00:50:33] Emails from visits and the Northern hemisphere that still want to do their OAE down under in New Zealand. They want to come here for a working holiday. Do you think that will ever happen again? I do. And the reason I think that is because the working holiday visa is cherished in a way, and it. And what you have to remember is the fabric of the working holiday visa [00:51:00] behind the scenes is all tied up with reciprocal trade agreements.

[00:51:05] And if we want our New Zealand youth to be able to travel overseas and have working holiday experiences, we have to reciprocate. Right. So I do think it will come back, although whether they start to limit numbers, I mean, at the moment, Scheme is very broad. And a lot of the countries have very strict numbers.

[00:51:26] You know, you might have a scheme that says you can only have a hundred from a particular country coming in. Whereas today, UK Germany, for example, Germany, which actually had the largest number of working holiday visas heart from the UK. The numbers were very large and of course those are unrestricted working rights.

[00:51:43] So I don’t know whether they’ll start to try to limit that the minister made some arguments about reviewing, working holiday visas, but I think we, I think we will have a working holiday scheme. The irony is Julie that the working holiday steam wasn’t really [00:52:00] intense. For the likes of vets to take up permanent positions, if you, but the actual truth of the working holiday visa is all working holiday visas, prohibits, taking up permanent work.

[00:52:14] But what we have seen over the years is consistently that clinics do offer permanent work on a working holiday visa and immigration. New Zealand has always turned a bit of a blind eye to before. To that, to date. And that’s the bit where I’m slightly quizzical as to whether in the future, we might see a bit more stringency around that and that’s might need to take advice.

[00:52:36] They could come into New Zealand with that visa, but then move on to a different visa. If they get a permanent job offer. Yeah. The inquiries I’ve been having. Vets who want to come and nurses, you know, we can’t get nurses here at the moment as vets and nurses who want to come here for three or four months, that’s all they want to do.

[00:52:57] They want to come here for the Kiwi summer [00:53:00] work and travel and then go back home. What those vets in nurses, what they, the service they provided was a locum service. So they worked their way around New Zealand and picked up work as, as they needed it when they wanted it, which gave clinic. Temporary cover, which worked for the clinics that worked for the professionals.

[00:53:29] And we, we don’t have there anymore. And that has also taking away. I think it will return. And I think that that’s the apps that is actually the appropriate use of a working holiday visa for things like locum work or your classic fixed term, someone goes on maternity leave. You need someone to cover.

[00:53:49] Sure. And the. I would imagine that we’ll come back. The question is when will it come back? And I think it will come back exactly when we get tourists back [00:54:00] because it’s sort of part of the tourism scheme of things. So that’s going to be very interesting because I don’t know about YouTube. What’s your crystal ball.

[00:54:08] I don’t think we’re going to see that. Come back for some time. At least the middle of next year. Well, I’m wondering whether it will be 2023 because wasn’t the emergency immigration New Zealand changes that, that took, that came into effect. When we had, when COVID first arrived in New Zealand last year, there was immigration, New Zealand announced a 12 month moratorium, whatever you want to call it.

[00:54:34] And then in may, April or may of this year, that was exciting. For 24 months, even though everybody only wanted it for 12 months. So I’m wondering whether, you know, nothing’s going to change until mid 20, 23. I wouldn’t be at all surprised. Uh, right, because also, you know, this recent extension of the existing working [00:55:00] holiday visas probably sets a bit of a clue as well.

[00:55:03] You know, they’ve said all of those were on working holiday visas are going to get another six months that’s for people whose visas are going to expire before the end of next June. So end of, you know, you could have a. Borrowing end of next June and it gets another six months. So that takes you to the end of next year.

[00:55:20] So yeah, I could well foresee that it could be 20, 23. I think the thing with COVID is I’ve learned to really, you know, you just have to be as so nimble in your thinking because it can change so dramatically so quickly. But yes, I think if we assume there’s going to be none for the next year, anything else will be a bonus.

[00:55:40] So therefore that means you’ve got to keep a look out for what are the critical work. Lessons, what do we need to fight for more? And I think you’ve been on it all the way through and asking for bigger categories emergency in my queue. There, there is no point if hopefully what will happen is they’ll, they’ll [00:56:00] continue to say you need critical worker, but you will then not need to do MIQ.

[00:56:04] You’ll be able to self isolate if you’re from a low risk country. Yeah, most of our butts are what they call low risk. Doesn’t it? Whether it’s UK, Western, UK, Canada, the more people they can get out of MIQ, the more we can start to see more work these as being given, and maybe they won’t be working holidays, but they’ll always be space for vets to get a work visa because all what visas rely on there being a genuine skill shortage.

[00:56:30] And I don’t think I could. I mean, it’s hard to imagine another. Human health, an area where there’s a greater skill shortage. Thank you. You are very welcome. You’re very welcome. If people would like information on the 2021 visa specifically, or to an, or get a personal strategy on that, they don’t have to engage us for the full thing.

[00:56:53] They can just get a one off strategic advice session, just so you know. Thank you. I will [00:57:00] put links to your website. And phone numbers. How do they get hold of you or your www.intoanswered.co dot ends it. Then we actually have a self booking system so they can book in for a free. So we always have a first free chat.

[00:57:20] They can book in for a paid consultation. A first free chat is just that we don’t give out binding immigration advice and a free chat for obvious reasons. We also have a specific 2021. Baeza page on a website, right in the middle of the menu. And people can register in that to get advice specifically around that.

[00:57:42] And that puts them into a container where we can give them relevant. Mailshots live feeds as we work through and learn more about that particular visa. So this is every level. Help available by going to our website. Thank you. So it stepped up dub into [00:58:00] indeed.co.mz. Thanks for your work. You’ve been a dedicated advocate for your industry.

[00:58:05] All right. Noted.

[00:58:06] Julie South: I hope you found that helpful. The vet association is lobbying the government allocate two MIQ spaces per week for this with visas and your support will be greatly appreciated. Remember, you can sign the petition at tiny U R L. Dot com forward slash get to that indeed. And that’s number two.

[00:58:29] Think you wherever you are in New Zealand right now locked down or not. As we come into this long weekend, take care and stay safe. Especially on the roads. If you are able to travel on the water and the air, wherever you are, stay safe and here’s to supporting you and being the absolute most fantabulous version of you, that you can be khakis.

[00:58:56] God bless paws, claws and wet [00:59:00] noses is sponsored by vet staff. If you’ve never heard of it, staff it’s new, Zealand’s only full service recruitment agency. 100% dedicated to the veterinary sector fit staff has been around since 2015 and works nationwide from Kate it to the bluff and everywhere in between as well as helping Kiwis fits.

[00:59:23] Also hubs overseas, qualified veterinarians find work and Arturo and New Zealand fit. staff.co dot. Indeed. .


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